Coming Back to iOS - What Happened?!?

[Mr.Mischief]

thanks very much for that info! That's a little clearer. But it still leaves this question for me. Why would an iPhone user, now with these kinds of Sims available for simple plug-and-play, ever need to unlock their iphone? Since the only reason you ever unlock your phone is to be able to use it with a different carrier. Help me with the answer to that question. Thanks.

I believe there are a few reasons people still unlock their phones and/or still stay with AT&T/Verizon/Sprint.

1. People unlock their phones for use outside the US.
2. Customer Service. Straight Talk doesn't have any of its own stores. People can't just drop by the store for help with their phone. With Straight Talk, all you get is foreign tech support.
3. People don't care. The service provider they have works fine, and they aren't willing to port their numbers and set up new accounts.
4. These sims have only been available for a few weeks. I believe they were released around February 7th, 2012.

 

[pianoman]

I believe there are a few reasons people still unlock their phones and/or still stay with AT&T/Verizon/Sprint.

1. People unlock their phones for use outside the US.
2. Customer Service. Straight Talk doesn't have any of its own stores. People can't just drop by the store for help with their phone. With Straight Talk, all you get is foreign tech support.
3. People don't care. The service provider they have works fine, and they aren't willing to port their numbers and set up new accounts.
4. These sims have only been available for a few weeks. I believe they were released around February 7th, 2012.

Thanks, that makes it clearer. I still believe Apple isn't supportive of this and if they detect their basebands being used by a different carrier - not to mention AT&T's towers detecting the usage by another company. It doesn't seem 'legit' to me. But 6 months from now if people are raving about this new service and its compatibility with GSM iPhones and other companies start popping up creating more competition then I might jump off AT&T myself.

Thanks again!

 

[Mr.Mischief]

Thanks, that makes it clearer. I still believe Apple isn't supportive of this and if they detect their basebands being used by a different carrier - not to mention AT&T's towers detecting the usage by another company. It doesn't seem 'legit' to me. But 6 months from now if people are raving about this new service and its compatibility with GSM iPhones and other companies start popping up creating more competition then I might jump off AT&T myself.

Thanks again!

Wait a sec, Straight Talk is a well known prepaid service provider. Straight Talk has contracts with all four major carriers in the US(AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, & Sprint).I'm not quite sure why you think ST isn't legit?

You can't just run off some other company's network, there has to be contracts and agreements. AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint, sell Straight Talk a certain amount of minutes, texts, and data.

 

[pianoman]

Wait a sec, Straight Talk is a well known prepaid service provider. Straight Talk has contracts with all four major carriers in the US(AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, & Sprint).I'm not quite sure why you think ST isn't legit?

You can't just run off some other company's network, there has to be contracts and agreements. AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint, sell Straight Talk a certain amount of minutes, texts, and data.

You yourself just said they started selling 'sims' in February. That's a johnny-come-lately-company. How do you know they have contracts? Why don't they have their own stores and outlets? What other legit companies out there just sell sims from a website? I'm not saying their not legit -- I'm just saying you're the only person I've ever known to have them. I've asked a number of my very tech geek friends about this and two professionals in the communications industry and noone's said they've ever heard of this company. I'll keep researching. But it doesn't add up to me.. I go into an Apple Store.. And they ask me - which phone do I want.. And I say -- a GSM phone, please.. And 'what carrier' should we set up for you? What would I tell them?????

 

[Mr.Mischief]

You yourself just said they started selling 'sims' in February. That's a johnny-come-lately-company. How do you know they have contracts? Why don't they have their own stores and outlets?

They just started selling sims last month, but they have been selling prepaid phones for three(3) years. Straight Talk is a division of TracFone wireless, which has been a prepaid provider since 1996. Straight Talk is a Wal-Mart exclusive deal. Straight Talk phones are only sold at Wal-Mart or online.

What other legit companies out there just sell sims from a website? I'm not saying their not legit

Many other legit companies sell just sim cards:

H2O Wireless
Red Pocket Wireless
Net10
Cricket(you can flash a Verizon iPhone to them)
T-Mobile PrePaid(You can walk into a T-Mobile store with any phone you want and have it activated)

I'm just saying you're the only person I've ever known to have them. I've asked a number of my very tech geek friends about this and two professionals in the communications industry and noone's said they've ever heard of this company. I'll keep researching. But it doesn't add up to me.. I go into an Apple Store.. And they ask me - which phone do I want.. And I say -- a GSM phone, please.. And 'what carrier' should we set up for you? What would I tell them?????

I'm not completely sure how to address this one. I guess it depends on where you live. I'm in Alabama, and I've seen many people with Straight Talk phones. If you go to the Apple Store, you would have to purchase an AT&T iPhone without a contract. People who use their iPhones on other networks, usually buy them on eBay or without a contract. My family has been using Straight Talk for almost two years.


If you want to learn more about Straight Talk, I suggest you go to:

Howard Forums. They have a dedicated section just for Straight Talk. There are many quite knowledgeable people there.

Also read:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/straight-talk-mvno-tracfone-nets-493k-subs-q4/2012-02-10

http://www.walmart.com/cp/straight-talk-brand-shop/1045119

http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/walmart-offers-straight-talk-for-wireless-service-20091017/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2009/10/15/will-wal-marts-straight-talk-squeeze-wireless-carriers/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TracFone_Wireless

 

[pianoman]

Thanks, Mr.Mischief. A lot to consider. PrePaid phones are another whole thing. The issue is having an iPhone. iPhones without contracts cost $600 or more (which is why you can sell your old phones for a lot of money on eBay). So you first have start a contract with AT&T, Verizon or Sprint to even "activate" an iPhone. You can't "activate" and iPhone with a prepaid card- and there's the rub. So what you're telling people is that they have to pay for both AT&T and StraightTalk thru the AT&T contract period. Nobody wants to do that.

The only way it might make financial sense is to buy an iPhone with no contract - and then maybe after one year it would pay for itself. Hard to tell. I just don't see the numbers working out for the average person to "start" with an iPhone and a StraightTalk SIM + plan. You have to really hate contracts.

 

[Mr.Mischief]

Thanks, Mr.Mischief. A lot to consider. PrePaid phones are another whole thing. The issue is having an iPhone. iPhones without contracts cost $600 or more (which is why you can sell your old phones for a lot of money on eBay).

You can purchase iPhone 4's and 4s's on eBay for $270 and $450. New, $350 and $520.

So you first have start a contract with AT&T, Verizon or Sprint to even "activate" an iPhone. You can't "activate" and iPhone with a prepaid card- and there's the rub. So what you're telling people is that they have to pay for both AT&T and StraightTalk thru the AT&T contract period. Nobody wants to do that.

You don't need a contract first. You don't need to activate the iPhone on a network. All you have to do is stick an old(active or not) AT&T sim in and you're activated. You can find old AT&T sims on eBay for under $5. Straight Talk sims only work in AT&T iPhone's, not Sprint or Verizon(yet).

The only way it might make financial sense is to buy an iPhone with no contract - and then maybe after one year it would pay for itself. Hard to tell. I just don't see the numbers working out for the average person to "start" with an iPhone and a StraightTalk SIM + plan. You have to really hate contracts.

Since you don't need a contract, you save about $1250 over a two(2) year contract. Lets work it out:

AT&T iPhone 4s:

iPhone 4: $199.99
900 Minutes: $59.99
3GB Data: $30
Unlimited Messaging: $20
Activation Fee: $36

Over the course of a two(2) year contract from AT&T, it costs $2875.75

Straight Talk iPhone 4s:

New iPhone 4s: $520
Straight Talk Unlimited: $45
Straight Talk Sim: $15

Over the course of a two(2) year contract from Straight Talk, it costs: $1615.

I, purchased my iPhone 4 on eBay for $280. I had an old AT&T sim I activated my phone with. I paid $15 for the sim. That's all it took, and I'm rocking on an iPhone 4 with fast 3G data

 

[pianoman]

You can purchase iPhone 4's and 4s's on eBay for $270 and $450. New, $350 and $520.

You don't need a contract first. You don't need to activate the iPhone on a network. All you have to do is stick an old(active or not) AT&T sim in and you're activated. You can find old AT&T sims on eBay for under $5. Straight Talk sims only work in AT&T iPhone's, not Sprint or Verizon(yet). Actually on StraightTalk's website they also sell CDMA sims (which should then work on Verizon's network - but maybe not).

Since you don't need a contract, you save about $1250 over a two(2) year contract. Lets work it out:

AT&T iPhone 4s:
iPhone 4: $199.99 <---did you forget to put an 's' after 4 there? You don't mean iPhone4 - do you?
900 Minutes: $59.99
3GB Data: $30
Unlimited Messaging: $20
Activation Fee: $36

Over the course of a two(2) year contract from AT&T, it costs $2875.75

Straight Talk iPhone 4s:
New iPhone 4s: $520
Straight Talk Unlimited: $45
Straight Talk Sim: $15

Over the course of a two(2) year contract from Straight Talk, it costs: $1615.

I, purchased my iPhone 4 on eBay for $280. I had an old AT&T sim I activated my phone with. I paid $15 for the sim. That's all it took, and I'm rocking on an iPhone 4 with fast 3G data

Interesting. Getting old AT&T sims off eBay before you can even activate - is the quasi-'non-legit' part I knew would be part of this equation if we kept digging . AT&T doesn't authorize old sims to be sold on eBay. But it's not 'too illegit' in this "hacker" climate we live in in the phone world today. It's just the average person will not go for this routine. The young guys who like to "get around" things will love this method and that's what Straight Talk is counting on. Does it seem "normative" that a company like Straight Talk would have to then put in their instructions, "now you have to go to eBay and find yourself an old AT&T sim card to even get activated with an iPhone...". There's no "take the phone home, activate it, and start using it" option with Straight Talk it appears.

Again, I say - this is NOT really an option for the average Joe wanting to get started with an iPhone. It's more of an "off the beaten" trail, "way around the norm", sorta thing. Now for ME - this is awesome news. But this is NOT an option for the average person and I have a feeling there's no family plan option with them either which all the major companies offer. And then also you can't walk into an Apple Store and tell them you want an iPhone ready to go with StraightTalk as the carrier. You'd have to buy a factory unlocked phone which is very expensive new. Even then - you'd still have to find an old AT&T sim on eBay to even get activated. That alone tells you this deal with StraightTalk has an non-legit feel to it even if it's "technically" legal.

I do however like the idea that something like this is now available and creates more and more competition that drives prices down for the consumer. I just wish StraightTalk had a more "legit-feeing" activation process to it. As of now they don't.

Thanks for all your information, Mr.Mischief. We're at the point where we'll have to agree to disagree on whether this is a "normative viable" option for the average iPhone 4S user. I would not recommend it to my parents or business associates. But to my "poor" 20-year old son? - sure. This will work for him (and for his techie loving Dad).. LOL!!!

 

[Mr.Mischief]

Interesting. Getting old AT&T sims off eBay before you can even activate - is the quasi-'non-legit' part I knew would be part of this equation if we kept digging . AT&T doesn't authorize old sims to be sold on eBay. But it's not 'too illegit' in this "hacker" climate we live in in the phone world today. It's just the average person will not go for this routine. The young guys who like to "get around" things will love this method and that's what Straight Talk is counting on. Does it seem "normative" that a company like Straight Talk would have to then put in their instructions, "now you have to go to eBay and find yourself an old AT&T sim card to even get activated with an iPhone...". There's no "take the phone home, activate it, and start using it" option with Straight Talk it appears.

Again, I say - this is NOT really an option for the average Joe wanting to get started with an iPhone. It's more of an "off the beaten" trail, "way around the norm", sorta thing. Now for ME - this is awesome news. But this is NOT an option for the average person and I have a feeling there's no family plan option with them either which all the major companies offer. And then also you can't walk into an Apple Store and tell them you want an iPhone ready to go with StraightTalk as the carrier. You'd have to buy a factory unlocked phone which is very expensive new. Even then - you'd still have to find an old AT&T sim on eBay to even get activated. That alone tells you this deal with StraightTalk has an non-legit feel to it even if it's "technically" legal.

I do however like the idea that something like this is now available and creates more and more competition that drives prices down for the consumer. I just wish StraightTalk had a more "legit-feeing" activation process to it. As of now they don't.

Thanks for all your information, Mr.Mischief. We're at the point where we'll have to agree to disagree on whether this is a "normative viable" option for the average iPhone 4S user. I would not recommend it to my parents or business associates. But to my "poor" 20-year old son? - sure. This will work for him (and for his techie loving Dad).. LOL!!!

Lol, yeah I meant to put an "s" in there

One quick note though, it's not illegal to buy or sell sims on eBay, not even close. If it was, eBay would close the listings. Also, people who are just off contract from AT&T won't need to buy a sim.

Although Straight Talk uses Verizon and Sprint services, to get a Verizon(or Sprint) iPhone to work, you'd have to change the ESN, which I believe is illegal(and I'm not sure it's possible with an iPhone). Verizon and Sprint also don't use sim cards. That's why Straight Talk only offers T-Mobile network sims and AT&T network sims.

But, I agree with you. It's a little too technical for many people. I set my mom up with an Android phone using the AT&T sim, if I hadn't done it, she'd still be on a dumb phone.

 

[Mickey330]

Interesting. Getting old AT&T sims off eBay before you can even activate. ... Does it seem "normative" that a company like Straight Talk would have to then put in their instructions, "now you have to go to eBay and find yourself an old AT&T sim card to even get activated with an iPhone...". There's no "take the phone home, activate it, and start using it" option with Straight Talk it appears. ... Even then - you'd still have to find an old AT&T sim on eBay to even get activated. That alone tells you this deal with StraightTalk has an non-legit feel to it even if it's "technically" legal.

Snipped a bit out from above to just focus on some parts of it...

Just want to point out that if you want a SIM to work with the iPhone, it's a simple matter of ordering one from Straight Talk - no visits to eBay needed. I've received aSIM from the company and it appears to be fine. I've got activating instructions and such and it appears ready to go. I'm waiting on a friend to five me her old iPhone and then I'm going to activate this. I guess we'll see then...

I don't know how they do it either ($45 for a month of unlimited talk, text and data?!). Granted, you'd have to pay for an unlocked phone or get a used iPhone, but the SIM is perfectly fine from Straight Talk. So, if you bought a used phone and stuck this Straight Talk SIM into it, sounds like a heck of a deal.

I figure you can't do this with a new phone unless you buy one that's unlocked. Cause I sure don't see the carriers allowing you to get a subsidized phone and then not activate it on there network....

Bottom line: You can get the SIMs, that work with AT&T phones, from Straight Talk. No e-baying required.

Marilyn

 

[pianoman]

Bottom line: You can get the SIMs, that work with AT&T phones, from Straight Talk. No e-baying required.

Marilyn

But you can't ACTIVATE a phone from a StraightTalk Sim I'm pretty sure. That's the issue - and why eBay will be a necessary step for many. You can only put a StraightTalk Sim in an already activated phone. Activation requires a sim from a company that can actually activate.. And from what I can gather, Straight Talk has no agreement with Apple yet to be a primary carrier. If they did - you could ACTIVATE an iPhone right with StraightTalk Sim. But as of now you can't. This is a case where StraightTalk is a "piggybacking" company on the ATT towers. It's kind of a "fishy" way to do business. Though I AM now convinced it's not technically illegal - it is wrought with potential problems for people who want to use StraightTalk as their service.

You can bet AT&T and Apple are aware of this and not happy. Why not? Because they have all sorts of agreements with each other (like they did with exclusivity the first 2 years the iPhone was out) and StraightTalk is able to draw people to the venerated iPhone (best selling phones on the market) by offering a plan nearly half the price of most other carriers. If the news gets out about this "sorta cheating" was to use an iPhone on a "cheaper" service there will be repercussions and possible legal battles that will either shut down StraightTalk or greatly up their monthly costs because AT&T or apple was 'usage fees' for the towers etc.

Then there's these issue to consider: Taking out your SIM from any iPhone also voids a warranty if a new phone or voids AppleCare coverage. So all I'm trying to help people understand is that going to StraightTalk is something sort of on the level of the "hacker community" fun - not quite as bad as using pirated software - but in a back handed way is a little -- well -- "getting away with something" is the only way to sort of explain.

I'm reading daily about this now and my confidence in this as a legitimate alternative company to AT&T is waning. I believe it's going to bite users in the fanny down the line. You also basically have no customer service people who actually make something happen in time of network outages.

One guy did explain this type of service ST is offering as being not all that different than the "electricity service business" getting deregulated in many states like TX, GA, PA, MD, NJ where other electricity providers are now cropping up though they're still using the power lines of the big main guys - like PECO in my state. PECO still owns and maintains the lines and even does the billing but Veridian, Ignite, etc are now able to charge competitive rates for the electricity flowing through the power lines.

The only difference between the electricity businesses emerging and the StraighTalk paradigm we're discussing is - that these other electricity service provider companies pay large use fees to the owners of the power lines. I'm having trouble finding confirmation that StraightTalk is paying proper usage fees to AT&T for this "new service" of theirs.

Still feels fishy to me - but for a season - I'm not afraid to "save a little money" ;-)

 

[Mr.Mischief]

But you can't ACTIVATE a phone from a StraightTalk Sim I'm pretty sure. That's the issue - and why eBay will be a necessary step for many. You can only put a StraightTalk Sim in an already activated phone. Activation requires a sim from a company that can actually activate.. And from what I can gather, Straight Talk has no agreement with Apple yet to be a primary carrier. If they did - you could ACTIVATE an iPhone right with StraightTalk Sim. But as of now you can't. This is a case where StraightTalk is a "piggybacking" company on the ATT towers. It's kind of a "fishy" way to do business. Though I AM now convinced it's not technically illegal - it is wrought with potential problems for people who want to use StraightTalk as their service.

Once again, Straight Talk is not "piggybacking" on AT&T towers. It's not fishy, Straight Talk purchases bandwidth from AT&T and resells it to prepaid customers.

When i update my iPhone to iOS 5.1, I'll try to activate it with a Straight Talk sim.

You can bet AT&T and Apple are aware of this and not happy. Why not? Because they have all sorts of agreements with each other (like they did with exclusivity the first 2 years the iPhone was out) and StraightTalk is able to draw people to the venerated iPhone (best selling phones on the market) by offering a plan nearly half the price of most other carriers. If the news gets out about this "sorta cheating" was to use an iPhone on a "cheaper" service there will be repercussions and possible legal battles that will either shut down StraightTalk or greatly up their monthly costs because AT&T or apple was 'usage fees' for the towers etc.

Since Straight Talk purchases bandwidth from AT&T, AT&T is making money. It's a win win for both. AT&T loves this, now they're getting previous T-Mobile prepaid customers.

Then there's these issue to consider: Taking out your SIM from any iPhone also voids a warranty if a new phone or voids AppleCare coverage. So all I'm trying to help people understand is that going to StraightTalk is something sort of on the level of the "hacker community" fun - not quite as bad as using pirated software - but in a back handed way is a little -- well -- "getting away with something" is the only way to sort of explain.

The only difference between the electricity businesses emerging and the StraighTalk paradigm we're discussing is - that these other electricity service provider companies pay large use fees to the owners of the power lines. I'm having trouble finding confirmation that StraightTalk is paying proper usage fees to AT&T for this "new service" of theirs.

Still feels fishy to me - but for a season - I'm not afraid to "save a little money" ;-)

Taking out your sim card DOES NOT void the warranty.

Why do you keep bringing up that somehow Straight Talk isn't legal? How could Straight Talk use AT&T towers and not be paying what AT&T wants them to?

 

[pianoman]

Once again, Straight Talk is not "piggybacking" on AT&T towers. It's not fishy, Straight Talk purchases bandwidth from AT&T and resells it to prepaid customers.

Okay on the no piggyback thing - but here's another thing. Is ST only a Pre-paid service?

When i update my iPhone to iOS 5.1, I'll try to activate it with a Straight Talk sim.

Doubt you'll be able to. But would love to hear results.

Since Straight Talk purchases bandwidth from AT&T, AT&T is making money. It's a win win for both. AT&T loves this, now they're getting previous T-Mobile prepaid customers.

Perhaps so.

Taking out your sim card DOES NOT void the warranty.

We must be reading different user manuals.....

Thanks for all the info. Intriguing. But "buyer beware" is my take away. You'd make a great salesman for ST, Mischief. ;-)

 

[Mr.Mischief]

Okay on the no piggyback thing - but here's another thing. Is ST only a Pre-paid service?

Correct, it's prepaid only/

Doubt you'll be able to. But would love to hear results.
Perhaps so.

I was bored, so I restored my iPhone to iOS 5.0.1 and video taped the activation.(Please forgive the quality, I used an iPod Touch 4G). It activated perfectly with the Straight Talk AT&T sim.

We must be reading different user manuals.....

Could you cite this? I have never come across anyone stating that removing the sim voids the warranty.

 

[B.B.Honee]

@ piano man maybe you should go research on howardforums. There's like loads of info on this. Before, were doing it the illegit way with their Nokia e71 and 6790 sim swapping, but now ST is offering and the ppl I've known withe iPhone 4 have gotten everything to work including FaceTime. The only thing that you can't do us use the visual voicemail but I think most will survive without it. Lol.