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How far back and how many deleted texts can be recovered

Renrut

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I have searched the Internet for weeks looking for some type of definite answer to this but have yet to find it. However, I will make this post and update it when I find out the truth about this. Hopefully if someone runs into a situation were they are left wondering this will be able to answer it for them.
The police recently took my phone when I was arrested, by the time they took the phone the battery had died. I have always constantly deleted texts messages that were sent back and forth with a particular person. These charges are misdemeanors and not drug related, or have anything to do with the actual cell phone.
Anyways when they took the phone from me the phone battery had died. I'm sure the police can get a search warrant for anything no matter how ridiculous the connection may be with the phone.
My court date is coming up soon and I was told they were going to pull every text message I ever had with this person. Like I said I constantly deleted these messages due to the fact that it was full or arguing and cursing and this relationship went on like this for years. So I will update soon to let it be know how far back deleted texts can be retrieved from an Verizon iPhone 4S.
Or if anyone actually knows anything about it please respond like I said I have been doing searches for weeks with answers varying. So anyways thanks for the replies if any, and I will post back what was recovered soon, and hopefully it can put someone that may be in a similar situations mind at ease knowing what to expect.
 
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chunky

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That very question has been asked many times.

I believe the Networks Servers would keep them live for a couple of weeks/ months before they are deleted or overwritten.
 
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Renrut

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That very question has been asked many times.

I believe the Networks Servers would keep them live for a couple of weeks/ months before they are deleted or overwritten.

Thanks for response but I'm talking about the actual IPhone itself, my phone
 

chunky

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Deleted texts messages cannot be pulled from the phone once the deletion has taken place.

Some software i believe can retract fragmented parts of them.
 

Skull One

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Verizon only stores SMS/MMS for 24 hours based on a divorce case I monitored 2 years ago.

iPhones use a database table to store text messages. If you delete one, the record is recycled. And the next texts would overwrite that space in the table. At best they might be able to recover fragments and maybe the last couple of texts.

Now for the stark reality check. Always assume everything you have sent digitally is retrievable. Someone or some system always keeps a copy somewhere. Just because you may have been cautious doesn't mean squat.

So do yourself a favor and plan for the very worst case scenario. It is the only smart move when it comes to dealing with your life.
 
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Renrut

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Verizon only stores SMS/MMS for 24 hours based on a divorce case I monitored 2 years ago.

iPhones use a database table to store text messages. If you delete one, the record is recycled. And the next texts would overwrite that space in the table. At best they might be able to recover fragments and maybe the last couple of texts.

Now for the stark reality check. Always assume everything you have sent digitally is retrievable. Someone or some system always keeps a copy somewhere. Just because you may have been cautious doesn't mean squat.

So do yourself a favor and plan for the very worst case scenario. It is the only smart move when it comes to dealing with your life.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I kick myself thinking about the arguments hat were had and what was said out of anger on those texts, but there's nothing I can do about it now. Anyways I have been reading about police forensics pulling hundreds even thousands of deleted texts from iPhones and all these commercial products advertised to pull deleted texts for the average person.
I hope what you said is true but like I said I'll be sure to post an update when if anything is recovered.
 

Skimonkey

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Thanks for the reply. Yeah I kick myself thinking about the arguments hat were had and what was said out of anger on those texts, but there's nothing I can do about it now. Anyways I have been reading about police forensics pulling hundreds even thousands of deleted texts from iPhones and all these commercial products advertised to pull deleted texts for the average person.
I hope what you said is true but like I said I'll be sure to post an update when if anything is recovered.

Renrut--your other post which was a duplicate of this one was deleted.

Please do not post duplicates. It makes it very confusing for others to follow the topic and to assist when there are multiple threads asking the same thing. It is also against the Forum Rules.

Ski~
 

Skull One

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Thanks for the reply. Yeah I kick myself thinking about the arguments hat were had and what was said out of anger on those texts, but there's nothing I can do about it now. Anyways I have been reading about police forensics pulling hundreds even thousands of deleted texts from iPhones and all these commercial products advertised to pull deleted texts for the average person.
I hope what you said is true but like I said I'll be sure to post an update when if anything is recovered.


Pulling deleted texts is easy if the person just deleted them (which is usually a panic move when the police are involved) and haven't had enough new text messages to overwrite the older ones.

If you have been getting more new ones than the number of old ones you have erased, then the odds of recovering drop dramatically towards zero.
 
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Renrut

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Pulling deleted texts is easy if the person just deleted them (which is usually a panic move when the police are involved) and haven't had enough new text messages to overwrite the older ones.

If you have been getting more new ones than the number of old ones you have erased, then the odds of recovering drop dramatically towards zero.

Just an update that my case been moved, supposedly waiting on "evidence". Which I am guess the arguments on my phone.
Also the last big nasty argument we had was probably almost a month before this all came down on me. My texts I sent out according to the website of the provider was over 1,000 last month. Still wondering what they could possibly be able to access. Again trying to pull the texts to establish constant angry arguments and a bad relationship to back up the charges that are accused to have occurred almost a year ago before they were brought on me by this ex.
 

bear7962

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You may be overlooking something here. For a criminal case a search warrant may be able to get info from a cell provider that is not available in a civil matter but more importantly, if the other party saved the messages on their phone, or printed them, that is a matter that can be entered in evidence.
 

Skull One

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You may be overlooking something here. For a criminal case a search warrant may be able to get info from a cell provider that is not available in a civil matter but more importantly, if the other party saved the messages on their phone, or printed them, that is a matter that can be entered in evidence.

There are currently NO cellular phones that are 100% secure from tampering. As long as that fact continues to exist, then a SMS or MMS can not be used as evidence unless it can be vetted to show who the original sender, receiver and content. Simply put, I can make a text message look like that it came from any Congressman of the United States. But unless there is a second source to validate that, it can only be used as hearsay and/or conjecture at best. Which means it has almost no chance of being used before a jury and barely any legal standing in front of a judge. And any good defense lawyer is going to know this.
 

bear7962

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Yes but rules of evidence make them great eveidnece because the other party, who OP is clearly concerned about, will be available to state theyare clear and accurate copies of the comversations that occurred. This is acually an area that I have a lot of professional experience with.
 

Skull One

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Yes but rules of evidence make them great eveidnece because the other party, who OP is clearly concerned about, will be available to state theyare clear and accurate copies of the comversations that occurred. This is acually an area that I have a lot of professional experience with.

And it would take me less than two minutes to discredit the evidence during discovery because I can show how it was faked. Which is why you need two independent electronic sources to get the evidence elevated above the level of "he said, she said". Sadly some judges still apply analog rules, i.e. saying that an email is the same thing as a hand written piece of mail, to its electronic counterpart which then forces an expert witness testimony to show they are not the same thing nor hold the same weight. Hopefully this is done without the jury present so that there is no bias or prejudice being induced.
 

bear7962

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Not to belabor this, I am obviously not explaining myself well. I am referring to much simplier rules of evidence and not even considering electronic expert testimony. If I go into court with a print out of what I purport to be a test wsent to my, I am testifying that it is my word that I received this as a text. Forensic evidence is not needed. You must either discredit my testimony or the jury will accept what I say. This is the same rule of evidence that covers any witness testimony. The OP is concerned about the person he had the text arguments with. All she has to do is testify that he stated what ever he did on a text. The judge or jury will chose who to believe, him or her. The only cell provider info needed for that is easy for the company to produce, a record that he was sending texts not the contents. I was not addressing the forensic evidentiary elements you were addressing, the OP has an issue with the person who he sent the texts to and that is what I was trying to say he was overlooking.
 

Skull One

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Not to belabor this, I am obviously not explaining myself well. I am referring to much simplier rules of evidence and not even considering electronic expert testimony. If I go into court with a print out of what I purport to be a test wsent to my, I am testifying that it is my word that I received this as a text. Forensic evidence is not needed. You must either discredit my testimony or the jury will accept what I say. This is the same rule of evidence that covers any witness testimony. The OP is concerned about the person he had the text arguments with. All she has to do is testify that he stated what ever he did on a text. The judge or jury will chose who to believe, him or her. The only cell provider info needed for that is easy for the company to produce, a record that he was sending texts not the contents. I was not addressing the forensic evidentiary elements you were addressing, the OP has an issue with the person who he sent the texts to and that is what I was trying to say he was overlooking.

Understood you the first time. And my statement to that was, "He said, she said". Which is what the jury will have to decide on. But any competent lawyer will discredit anything, especially electronic communication, as no more than hearsay or uncorroborated evidence unless the item is verified as legitimate.

So while anyone can introduce anything as evidence, how well it stands up before the judge or jury is what truly matters. Personally, I would make sure the texts were basically useless as evidence if at all possible.
 

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