Warning shot over Apple ship???

[andrzejls]

Very interesting article.

Apple's stock is getting creamed by Verizon and AT&T - May. 9, 2012

 

[Skull One]

Where to even start on how FLAWED that article is.

1) They picked the ONLY date range where Apple shows a 10% dip in price. Go back to the beginning of the year and redo that chart and his article falls to pieces in less than a second.

2) It is a KNOWN historical fact that Apple is the most undervalued stock ever. Which is why analysts are still citing $1000 to $2000 share prices for future growth if you just use Apple's raw manufacturing numbers for data.

3) AT&T and Verizon have to practically beg people to buy Android over iPhone when you reach the $200 two year contract price. In fact look at the historic data on how fast Android phones drop in price in their first 6 months of sales. Have you ever seen a current gen iPhone or last gen iPhone get a "Buy one, Get on Free!"? How many Android phones in the last two years were introduced to the market that way?

4) If AT&T and Verizon were really worried about the subsidy payments they would negotiate a new deal with Apple. Care to guess why they can't? Because their CUSTOMER base demands access to the iPhone.

5) iPhone users are the most loyal customers on the planet. Ask Android users how many different manufactures phone they have owned in the past 2.5 years. The path by the way is Motorola to HTC to Samsung. Android users have no loyalty.


I am actually shocked CNN Money ran this poorly of a researched article.

 

[andrzejls]

Well, Skull One. Your point #3 is not quite correct. iPhone 4S can not run 4G on Verizon network. Read another article linked here.
Verizon reps push 4G Android over iPhone - May. 3, 2012

 

[Skull One]

Your article actually validates my point. They are trying hard to push a phone that the USER didn't request to see. I'll give you two very good reasons they do that.

1) Every cellular device in VZW inventory has a SPIFF. iPhones spiffs are the lowest in the industry. Sales people want to make more money. Hence they push phones with higher spiffs. Why do Android phones have higher spiffs? Because they can't sell them head to head against the iPhone otherwise.

2) Every LTE contract under VZW has a SPIFF. Why would a salesperson push a 3G phone when an LTE phone makes them more money?


If you put the top 3 Android phones along side the iPhone 4S and don't talk to the customer at all, the customer will select the iPhone 4S more than 50% of the time. And VZW last SEC filling and analyst conference call bears that number out since more people bought the iPhone 4S than all LTE capable phones combined in the last two quarter.

 

[andrzejls]

You are missing the point. Verizon is pushing phones witch can take advantage of their fastest network 4G. iPhone is incapable of that. Here is quote from this article to ilustrate this point "
In each of the 10 discussions, representatives steered me toward either the Motorola (MMI) Droid Razr Maxx, the Droid Razr, or the LG Lucid -- all 4G-capable phones running Google's (GOOG, Fortune 500) Android software. When I asked if those devices were better than the iPhone, they responded that the iPhone was an inferior alternative because it only runs on the company's slower 3G network.

It's true that Verizon's iPhone is 3G-only. Apple doesn't yet make a version compatible with Verizon's 4G network, which potentially offers download speeds up to 10 times faster than on 3G.
"The iPhone is a great phone, but it's on 3G," said one representative at a Verizon Wireless store in midtown Manhattan. "I'm not going to recommend a phone that's outdated.".
Do not try to kill the messenger. I own 2 iPhones 3G (JB and unlocked for my travel) and 4S. They are great, but if you need 4G with Verizon, iPhone can nor do it and you can not change that fact. I hope that iPhone 5 will be able to handle 4G on Verizon (I will move away from AT&T early next year), if not I will get Android.

 

[Pinkpoison]

"The iPhone is a great phone, but it's on 3G," said one representative at a Verizon Wireless store in midtown Manhattan. "I'm not going to recommend a phone that's outdated.".



im not going to pretend i understand all of this conversation but the above jumped out at me.....iphone 4s outdated???..i don't think so.

 

[andrzejls]

"The iPhone is a great phone, but it's on 3G," said one representative at a Verizon Wireless store in midtown Manhattan. "I'm not going to recommend a phone that's outdated.".



im not going to pretend i understand all of this conversation but the above jumped out at me.....iphone 4s outdated???..i don't think so.

It outdated ONLY on Verizon since iPhone 4s can not use their 4G network. It will only work with old 3G. Other than that it is great. My 4s on AT&T works fantastically in 4G.

 

[Skull One]

You are missing the point. Verizon is pushing phones witch can take advantage of their fastest network 4G. iPhone is incapable of that. Here is quote from this article to ilustrate this point "
In each of the 10 discussions, representatives steered me toward either the Motorola (MMI) Droid Razr Maxx, the Droid Razr, or the LG Lucid -- all 4G-capable phones running Google's (GOOG, Fortune 500) Android software. When I asked if those devices were better than the iPhone, they responded that the iPhone was an inferior alternative because it only runs on the company's slower 3G network.

It's true that Verizon's iPhone is 3G-only. Apple doesn't yet make a version compatible with Verizon's 4G network, which potentially offers download speeds up to 10 times faster than on 3G.
"The iPhone is a great phone, but it's on 3G," said one representative at a Verizon Wireless store in midtown Manhattan. "I'm not going to recommend a phone that's outdated.".
Do not try to kill the messenger. I own 2 iPhones 3G (JB and unlocked for my travel) and 4S. They are great, but if you need 4G with Verizon, iPhone can nor do it and you can not change that fact. I hope that iPhone 5 will be able to handle 4G on Verizon (I will move away from AT&T early next year), if not I will get Android.

I am not killing the messenger. I am disputing the message as factually incorrect and the premise of each article as unsustainable using VZW and Apple's own SEC's fillings.

And you missed a very key point to my reply. VZW sales representatives have a financial interest in selling LTE capable Android phones over the iPhone. Which means they are asking their customers to ignore the device they original asked to see.

BTW, the iPad (3rd Gen) supports LTE. Guess which tablet VZW sales representatives push now.

 

[Skull One]

It outdated ONLY on Verizon since iPhone 4s can not use their 4G network. It will only work with old 3G. Other than that it is great. My 4s on AT&T works fantastically in 4G.

Your AT&T iPhone 4S IS NOT on LTE. It is on 3G using the HSPA+ specification. AT&T negotiated a change to iOS to enable their iPhone to show that difference.

Now to make things even more interesting, the reason they are LEGALLY able to use the 4G (trademarked symbol) even though they are NOT using LTE as the carrier frequency is because of a backdoor deal with the LTE specification holders that said "IF your device will be able to switch from HSPA+ to LTE within one year, you can use the 4G symbol".

BTW, that is all the rage in the UK right now and it is causing all sorts of confusion.

 

[ardchoille]

"The iPhone is a great phone, but it's on 3G," said one representative at a Verizon Wireless store in midtown Manhattan. "I'm not going to recommend a phone that's outdated.".



im not going to pretend i understand all of this conversation but the above jumped out at me.....iphone 4s outdated???..i don't think so.

I totally agree with you, let me tell you why. I bought an iPhone 4S on April 3rd of this year. The first thing I did when I got home was run the speed test net app on my new iPhone (3G, Verizon) and on my three android phones (all WiMax, Sprint), including the htc Evo 4G (a flagship phone). I ran the test several times on all of the devices and found that the iPhone 4S was faster at everything than the Sprint phones, including the Evo 4G. Needless to say, my jaw dropped.

3G, 4G.. those are just numbers and letters to me and I don't really care about them. The real proof is how the device handles things when I'm using it in my area.. and the iPhone 4S ran circles around my previous WiMax phones.

Your AT&T iPhone 4S IS NOT on LTE. It is on 3G using the HSPA+ specification. AT&T negotiated a change to iOS to enable their iPhone to show that difference.

Now to make things even more interesting, the reason they are LEGALLY able to use the 4G (trademarked symbol) even though they are NOT using LTE as the carrier frequency is because of a backdoor deal with the LTE specification holders that said "IF your device will be able to switch from HSPA+ to LTE within one year, you can use the 4G symbol".

BTW, that is all the rage in the UK right now and it is causing all sorts of confusion.

Thank you so much for that

 

[Pinkpoison]

I totally agree with you, let me tell you why. I bought an iPhone 4S on April 3rd of this year. The first thing I did when I got home was run the speed test net app on my new iPhone (3G, Verizon) and on my three android phones (all WiMax, Sprint), including the htc Evo 4G (a flagship phone). I ran the test several times on all of the devices and found that the iPhone 4S was faster at everything than the Sprint phones, including the Evo 4G.

3G, 4G.. those are just numbers and letters to me and I don't really care about them. The real proof is how the device handles things when I'm using it in my area.. and the iPhone 4S ran circles around my previous phones.

yes you're so right,I'm on 3 mobile here in the UK and what skull one just said about the confusion here is so right too,i remember all the debate about that,when I'm not on wifi i get 3g and believe me its fast,i can't imagine it being any faster.

 

[andrzejls]

Your AT&T iPhone 4S IS NOT on LTE. It is on 3G using the HSPA+ specification. AT&T negotiated a change to iOS to enable their iPhone to show that difference.

Now to make things even more interesting, the reason they are LEGALLY able to use the 4G (trademarked symbol) even though they are NOT using LTE as the carrier frequency is because of a backdoor deal with the LTE specification holders that said "IF your device will be able to switch from HSPA+ to LTE within one year, you can use the 4G symbol".

BTW, that is all the rage in the UK right now and it is causing all sorts of confusion.

Do you even read my post?. I did not say iPhone 4s works on LTE. I stated that iPhone WORKS on AT&T 4G network (it displays 4G connection on the phone). You can "spin doctor" whatever you want, but the fact remains iPhone DOESN'T work on Verizon 4G networks. BTW, I don't care about UK, I am not there. When I get there, please update me on their situation.

 

[Skull One]

Do you even read my post?. I did not say iPhone 4s works on LTE. I stated that iPhone WORKS on AT&T 4G network (it displays 4G connection on the phone). You can "spin doctor" whatever you want, but the fact remains iPhone DOESN'T work on Verizon 4G networks. BTW, I don't care about UK, I am not there. When I get there, please update me on their situation.

And you didn't comprehend my post. AT&T use of the 4G symbol is a MARKETING PLOY. It has nothing to do with LTE. It has EVERYTHING to do with perception however.

Lets try a different explanation. The iPhone 4S is a CDMA and GSM based phone. It can only operate on the 3G frequencies approved by the FCC. So legally the iPhone 4S under AT&T can't use any other frequency range.

Before iOS 5.01 came out, AT&T went before the review board of the LTE rights holders and requested an exception to use the 4G trademarked symbol on a 3G only device. Their rational was based on the UK precedence of allowing companies to market HSPA+ as "4G" until they could bring the full LTE specification online. HSPA+ is about 3 times faster than baseline 3G. In fact internally it is sometimes called 3.5G. AT&T operates both a 3G and 3G HSPA+ network. This request was done before their first LTE towers were even spun up for use.

So the term 4G under AT&T is a SHAM. A gimmick. It is a 3G phone with a different label because they begged someone to legally use a trademark and the FCC couldn't do anything to stop them even though it is a LIE.

Pretty dang funny if you ask me. The really interesting part about this is? You bought in to their lie. Hook, line and sinker.

 

[Darkstar2007]

Do you even read my post?. I did not say iPhone 4s works on LTE. I stated that iPhone WORKS on AT&T 4G network (it displays 4G connection on the phone). You can "spin doctor" whatever you want, but the fact remains iPhone DOESN'T work on Verizon 4G networks. BTW, I don't care about UK, I am not there. When I get there, please update me on their situation.

Your article can "spin doctor" all it wants to, but the fact remains that the iPhone 4S has outsold any 4G LTE android phone on Verizon's network.

Now, if all you care about is 4G icons, you can always jailbreak and swap the 3G icon with a 4G icon. You can even put 5G up there of you wish. Because you can hardly call HSPA + 4G.
It's more of a marketing gimmick than anything..

If you care so much about 4G LTE, which doesn't even have a large footprint as of yet, then grab you an android phone and call it a day.

 

[seneca18]

And you didn't comprehend my post. AT&T use of the 4G symbol is a MARKETING PLOY. It has nothing to do with LTE. It has EVERYTHING to do with perception however.

Lets try a different explanation. The iPhone 4S is a CDMA and GSM based phone. It can only operate on the 3G frequencies approved by the FCC. So legally the iPhone 4S under AT&T can't use any other frequency range.

Before iOS 5.01 came out, AT&T went before the review board of the LTE rights holders and requested an exception to use the 4G trademarked symbol on a 3G only device. Their rational was based on the UK precedence of allowing companies to market HSPA+ as "4G" until they could bring the full LTE specification online. HSPA+ is about 3 times faster than baseline 3G. In fact internally it is sometimes called 3.5G. AT&T operates both a 3G and 3G HSPA+ network. This request was done before their first LTE towers were even spun up for use.

So the term 4G under AT&T is a SHAM. A gimmick. It is a 3G phone with a different label because they begged someone to legally use a trademark and the FCC couldn't do anything to stop them even though it is a LIE.

Pretty dang funny if you ask me. The really interesting part about this is? You bought in to their lie. Hook, line and sinker.

Apparently that marketing ploy is working.