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Apple is aware of battery life problem on 4s and iphone 4

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NewdestinyX said:
??? Of course, silly.. I have had every new iPhone since the beginning. The day it's available I'm #2 or 3 in line at the Apple Store in my area and get it the day it releases. I was even one of those sorry schmucks that paid the $600 price tag on the original iPhone where Apple dropped the price drastically 2 months later and pissed us all off.. Offerred only $150 in 'store credit'.. No refunds.. So yes -- like all other iPhones I will be one of the first in my area to own it the day it releases. They always let those of us who stand in line get them first over the 'pre-order' people by mail. I was giggling to myself how so many pre-order guys this time didn't understand why their phones didn't arrive on the Friday the phone came out. They 'never do'. Apple would never let the 'line standers' get their phones 'second'.. :)

So - yes --- a new iPhone is 'always' better than the last one.. always.. Even this 4s with its issues.

I don't know if I'll get the 5 unless it totally irresistible! Otherwise the 4S will have to work, although a bigger screen with retina display like quality could do the trick. Besides that what else could they do to the iPhone? Oh yeah, near field communication?
 
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I broke my own record this morning - lost 13% of battery life in 55 minutes without touching the phone!!




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Daca said:
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I broke my own record this morning - lost 13% of battery life in 55 minutes without touching the phone!!

/

I hope my phone doesn't trip like that! 13% without touching it? C'Mon man..
 
agreed, your scenario def proves that on your phone that the GPU will pull more power than the CPU, still doesn't explain how it is possible to show battery drain when plugged in ?, surely what your scenario demonstrates could be a GPU pulling more current, i.e. out of spec hardware fault, or a faulty battery or charging circuit. I am not sure how this reflects against the original battery standby drain issue. Your battery draining when plugged in and peoples standby drain are two different things are they not ?

I have just tried playing all the 3d games i have whilst plugged in and could not get the level to drop at all, i would have said there was a problem with your phone, i cant see how that should be possible, the circuit design should make the power cord be able to support the phone with no drain, no matter what the load (providing the hardware is correct) !. I don't see how they can fix that in software, they cannot down clock the GPU just on your phone, and any error in code (reported by the investigations) would not cause your GPU to run at higher clocks than mine ?. Why would your GPU pull more power than mine when both are max'd out to 100% with a 3d game ?

I actually thought about giving my post another paragraph to make sure I closed all the holes but I have been criticized by several posters when I do that. I shall have to ignore them in the future.

The Lithium-Ion battery used in the iPhone is a consumer grade battery that has the ability to be recharged 300 to 500 times before reaching the inability to charge due to oxidation on the anode. This means the battery is guaranteed to fail. To help extend the life of the battery you have to worry about three major things.

1) Temperature.
2) Amperage.
3) Rate of charge.

That is why the iPhone charges at the rate of 1% a minute for the first 85%. When it reaches 85% it switches to a lower amperage. At 96% it switches to the lowest amperage. At 100% it does a periodic top of charge at a very very low amperage. Which means the iPhone when using the screen, CPU and GPU at 100% can drain the battery faster than the charge rate that is used at 96%.

Now if you remember from all the posts they all have stated between 94 and 96% is where they seem to stop charging. Which is the toggle point between two of the charging rates. The GPU can easily pull the amperage needed to force that toggle.

That is why the theory holds water in my opinion. It fits all the anecdotal evidence presented in this thread alone, not to mention at least two others on this site.
 
Skull, though I've come to very much appreciate your vast knowledge - there comes a point where I need to do the research for myself. There are some holes in what you're saying there at first read thru. Where may I ask can I read about this LiOn battery behavior for myself? Do you have a link or two? And also sometimes you need to connect the dots for people a bit less technical. I'm having a hard time following how your explanation of the charge rates actually directly challenges Anthem's recent point about being plugged in the whole time. Can you connect the dots a little more directly. Line by line quote his text and then provide the explanation that satisfies his concern. Then we can follow better. You're brilliant and you see it clear as day - but you bring 1-2 too many a priori assumptions to the analysis of a poster's concerns. Those 'obvious conclusions' in your head you need to explain for us. Just connect the dots a little more directly by quoting Anthem's lines... Pretty please?

I have spent the last 28 years of my career generating what I know. I couldn't tell you were half of the stuff I have read resides on the internet, if it even resides on it at all. Mainly because I read more information from printed material than from the internet.

I would recommend you start with a primer on batteries and charging rates. I have pointed people to this site in the past - Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University - It is pretty good at presenting the full tech details.
 
Now this is simply unexplainable.

$image-3536693375.jpg
 
One thing I thought about though is that the Usage stat isn't actually specific so there's no way of knowing exactly what ratios of the active time were actual phone calls, internet, emails, or maybe other minor activities. I guess unless we utilize one of those battery utilities like Boost Magic or Battery Doctor. I've downloaded both of those and just started utilizing Boost Magic to see if there's something I could learn in the process. Anyone have any good experiences with those apps that led to longer battery life?
 
Skull One said:
Now this is simply unexplainable.

<img src="http://www.iphoneforums.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3607"/>

Awesome battery life! Lol.
That should be a record. :D

philinpdx said:
Is that off of your phone? Is someone good at photoshop? it does seem pretty freaking unbelievable!

I can assure you Skull One wouldn't photoshop a picture like that. :)
 
I actually thought about giving my post another paragraph to make sure I closed all the holes but I have been criticized by several posters when I do that. I shall have to ignore them in the future.

The Lithium-Ion battery used in the iPhone is a consumer grade battery that has the ability to be recharged 300 to 500 times before reaching the inability to charge due to oxidation on the anode. This means the battery is guaranteed to fail. To help extend the life of the battery you have to worry about three major things.

1) Temperature.
2) Amperage.
3) Rate of charge.

That is why the iPhone charges at the rate of 1% a minute for the first 85%. When it reaches 85% it switches to a lower amperage. At 96% it switches to the lowest amperage. At 100% it does a periodic top of charge at a very very low amperage. Which means the iPhone when using the screen, CPU and GPU at 100% can drain the battery faster than the charge rate that is used at 96%.

Now if you remember from all the posts they all have stated between 94 and 96% is where they seem to stop charging. Which is the toggle point between two of the charging rates. The GPU can easily pull the amperage needed to force that toggle.

That is why the theory holds water in my opinion. It fits all the anecdotal evidence presented in this thread alone, not to mention at least two others on this site.


I will bow to your knowledge of battery charge rates :), that was not really my point, i was more referring to why your phone will show power drop whilst plugged in and mine (and in fact anyone else i have asked about this) have never seen (when loading the GPU to 100%). And more importantly how you think this relates to the suspected bug in the code for the GPU firmware ?. if the bug, as you say is causing or a factor to the plugged in power drop when loading the GPU, how can this be with no hardware issue on your phone ?.

let say for example my hardware is the same as yours, i.e. non faulty, but you somehow activate the troublesome code but i do not, we both run 3d games using 100% GPU, but yours drops when plugged in ?, that does not make sense, as i said before, unless the error in code can somehow over clock your GPU requiring it to pull more current i really can't see from a technical perspective how this is possible just from, as you say, the buggy code ?. Both our GPU's will be at 100% and if neither has a hardware fault they will pull the same current.

as a follow up, lets say we both have the buggy code running, which based on your logic, we have as we get around 1-2% drain in idle, we both run GPU at 100%, you get drop whilst plugged in, i don't. Sounds like the problem is your hardware

and finally lets say, you have the buggy code and i don't, again we both load GPU to 100%, you get drain, and i don't.... the GPU cannot be loaded more than 100% by running buggy code, 100% is 100%, if the buggy code pulls 5% for example at idle, this does not get added to the 100% when loading of a 3d game and you won't end up running 105%. Basically the difference we will have is i will be at zero at idle, you at 5% at idle (in theory) but once we load to 100%, we are the same, and hence the only difference is the hardware. once you have loaded the GPU to 100% it makes no odds at all what the GPU pulls at idle.

maybe the bug loads the CPU at the same time, but that cannot be the case as you have all ready proved you only see the drop in power when plugged in with 100% GPU loading and zero CPU loading. I cannot see how your drop when plugged in is anything to do with software (based on your tests anyway)
 
Skull One said:
Now this is simply unexplainable.

<img src="http://www.iphoneforums.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3607"/>

Unbelievable! Is that with push and fetch off?
 
Easily explainable. And I'll bet this is what happened - since it happened to me too. I had a day of heavy usage where I'd drained the battery to 11% but had a long meeting coming that night so I didn't want to run out of power. So I put it on the charger but didn't charge it fully. Unless you charge to 97% or higher the iphone won't reset the usage statistics to zero. I'll bet that screen is reporting stats with a partial/booster charge - rather than a full charge. Dontcha think?

Nope.

Pulled it off the charger. Used the phone normally. And that is what it reported.

Answer to how this happened: Bug.

No other answer is possible since I know I was on the phone for less than an hour all day.
 
I don't need a primer on batteries or their charging rates, Skull. Remember who you're talking to :).. I have the same years of exp you do.. The part that got weird was your jump from battery charging rates to the GPU alleged "all on" smoking gun for our poor battery life. It's the quickness with which you made that jump that's in question. The people that are having the drain while on charger issue are 'not' explained by the GPU on theory. Anthem's right on this one. And I've confirmed this with other engineer friends of mine. Those people are having either hardware problems or some other software problem not posed yet.

But thanks anyway.. :)

I really don't know how to make it any more obvious. And since you can't understand it, your relaying of the facts at hand to anyone becomes suspect at best.

The evidence is right there. I have pointed out every single piece of it. If you can't put it together for yourself there is nothing more I can do.

This is no longer fun. I have stated that when the research here reached the level of my Android involvement I would walk away. That is the point I have reached. I don't feel like taking the time to create a free test that anyone can reproduce under any condition to prove the obvious.

This is my last post and my last visit to this site.

Good day.
 
This morning my iPhone was at 100%.
The. I went to work listen to music for. About 3 hours. Did a lot of Internet surfing. Came home by 10pm and my iPhone 4s was at 50%

The usage was 4 hours and 53 minutes. And stand by 13hours.
Whilst I the beginning it would never last this long.
I don't know guys whats happening but all I do know is this is weird.
 
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