Poor Battery Life

[krissigalores]

I get about 5 hours usage out of my iPhone 5.. Whereas on my iPhone 4 I'd get at least a day and a half.. I've got no apps open... It's just ridiculous. Do I get an exchange or is it software related?!

 

[Skull One]

Have you discharged the battery till the phone shuts off and then fully recharged it yet?

 

[hookbill]

Have you discharged the battery till the phone shuts off and then fully recharged it yet?

Me: Shaking my head in pure amazement. I don't know how you and I could have such different view points on this issue. But for the OP sure, try it I know it won't hurt it.

Also for the OP. Wow you must use your phone a lot. Mines been off charger since around 6:30 am. I at 70% and the only reason I'm that low is because I was a complete idiot and started a fight with my wife. That also affects my general health life battery.

 

[Skull One]

Me: Shaking my head in pure amazement. I don't know how you and I could have such different view points on this issue. But for the OP sure, try it I know it won't hurt it.

Easy. I have read the code base that collects the battery stats information in *Nix and know exactly how it works.

In fact in Android ASOP I can actually show you the exact file that contains the data and the code that uses it. iOS has the same code. Can't work any other way because if you try to read the battery level every minute you would drain it quick, fast and in a hurry because of the amount of load that it would place on it to get the true reading.

BTW, every cell phone since probably 2006 (first good feature phones) has worked this way.

 

[hookbill]

Easy. I have read the code base that collects the battery stats information in *Nix and know exactly how it works.

In fact in Android ASOP I can actually show you the exact file that contains the data and the code that uses it. iOS has the same code. Can't work any other way because if you try to read the battery level every minute you would drain it quick, fast and in a hurry because of the amount of load that it would place on it to get the true reading.

BTW, every cell phone since probably 2006 (first good feature phones) has worked this way.

There is no way I'm going to win a technical discussion with you. I wouldn't attempt it. But how come I've never had to do this? 2 Blackberry Storms, 1&2, Droid, Droid 2, Droid Bionic, iPhone 5. I know about the complete discharge occasionally for extending the overall length of the battery but as far as the amount of use you get out of it?

I'll take your word for it because you are a dev and I know your work. I'll keep it in mind when someone else has a similar issue.

 

[Skull One]

Hmmm... How to help you see what I have viewed in code versus how you have perceived the functional operation of a device.

Consumer grade Lithium-Ion batteries operate in a band of power. The extreme bands are from 2.4 volts thru 4.3 volts. 3.7 volts is consider the nominal or "average" voltage supplied over the power range. And 4.2 volts is considered the "fully" charged voltage level with 2.7 volts considered "empty".

If you use the phone in a very consistent manner and you allow it to get just below 3.0 V and fully charge to 4.2V, the system has a pretty good idea where top and bottom of the usage scale is. So for the most part things are really good and you rarely if ever have to do a deep cycle discharge to retrain the operating system to predict battery capacity.

Now most people who get a new smart phone do one of two things when they first get it. They either charge it like the manufactures recommend or the use it till the phone drops below 10% or even dead then charge it. If they hit the second condition, they just did a deep cycle charge and odds are they are good to go and it works as I recommend. But if they do what the manufactures recommends the first time and then they never let the charge drop below 3.3 volts for the first few days, the operating system thinks that is the bottom and then adjusts the scale accordingly. And then you have a misreading of how much charge the battery can hold and all of the sudden the phone looks like it has terrible battery life when you go to use it extensively. This condition can occur in as few as 3 days of data collection. But if you just once let it get below 3.0 and then fully charge, odds are no issue.

The other thing to note here, you will also notice huge battery drop off if your cellular signal goes to *bleep*. Because your cellular radio suddenly has to go from 1/4 of a watt to say 3/4 of watt to get a signal. Even though your battery and the stats behind it are spot on, the usage time will drop dramatically.

So odds are you haven't hit any of the conditions that causes the operating system to incorrectly predict the batteries capacity because your usage pattern allows it to get below 3.0 volts at some point and time with a full charge in that charging cycle.

Oh btw, when you hit about 300 full cycle charges your battery life is going to be at around 85% +/- 2% of new because the chemical capacity of the battery has diminished. Which changes the charging profile and how many hours you can use the device.

 

[hookbill]

I was just at 70% and I hooked up to iTunes and now it's up to 80. So are you saying it might be a good idea for me to let it power down to 5% and then recharge or is it already too late to do that?

And what you're saying also suggest of battery memory, which I know Lithium doesn't have and I know you know that as well. So I'm a bit confused by that.

But for now just answer the first question. We can get into that other stuff later.

 

[Skull One]

I was just at 70% and I hooked up to iTunes and now it's up to 80. So are you saying it might be a good idea for me to let it power down to 5% and then recharge or is it already too late to do that?

And what you're saying also suggest of battery memory, which I know Lithium doesn't have and I know you know that as well. So I'm a bit confused by that.

But for now just answer the first question. We can get into that other stuff later.

The battery is not affected at all no matter how you use it. There is no memory in Lithium-Ion batteries. Ever. In fact the only way you can screw up the battery is to:

1) Charge it with a core temperature below 32F or above 140F.
2) The battery goes above 4.3V and pops the safety protocol.
3) The battery goes below 2.4V (some are at 2.65V) and pops the safety protocol.

So you can charge it from 60 to 75 then drop it to 55 then charge it to 72 and so on and so on and the only thing that is affected is the battery stats in the operating system. The battery itself is doing just fine.

But the screwed up stats, if you do it ENOUGH times, can then give you a false reading of how much capacity the battery really has till you reteach the operating system where top and bottom really is.

 

[hookbill]

So it's the OS that gets the lesson. I see. Thanks Skull, I think I'll just let mine discharge tonight.

 

[dbplumb]

Yet another great lesson from Skull One
Thank you sir


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

 

[cuskit]

I think I'm understanding this for the first time. The "memory" is only an indicator as to how the OS is interpreting how much remaining juice we have in the battery - which has nothing to do with the actual remaining power. It begins to give false indications of more or less remaining power relative to the use/charge cycles we put the phone through. So, in effect we have to "teach" the OS to better give us proper readings. In reality we may have more or less power remaining than our phone is telling us we have. Right? Does the way I typed it make any sense?

I'd a thought that they could somehow more effectively produce a perfect indicator of actual power left - I mean, we've "put a man on the moon for Christ sakes"!

Me, I charge whenever I see mine under 80% and I'm at my desk or in my vehicles. Because I never know what might incur that might leave me running down the battery and not near a charger in the next few hours or so. For example - I broke down on a long section of lonely highway last summer. I was on a delivery trip to a destination four hours away. I was in my big box van and no phone charger (at that time) and did not think about charging my phone in full before I left. I mean - I was only going for the day and my phone, I knew was quite capable of lasting that long under normal usage.

Well, breakdown occurred. As well as almost two solid hours of phone conversations calling for help, a tow truck large enough to pull my 10,000 pound box van and calls to my guys, my customer and whatever other calls I made. So, there I was 180 miles from home on a long, lonely stretch of highway with a cellphone that had a dead battery. So now, as a result I always charge it anticipating just such an occurrence again. Though now I have chargers in all vehicles.

I'm hoping this does not shorten the life of my battery, but if Skull is right I should have no worries, right?

mike

EDIT: I do plan on getting one of those batteries for remote charging (ie: mophie) once they release one for the iPhone5 - this for any long trips I may go on, including some of the train trips I take up to New England where I amuse myself watching uTube videos or such.

 

[Skull One]

I think I'm understanding this for the first time. The "memory" is only an indicator as to how the OS is interpreting how much remaining juice we have in the battery - which has nothing to do with the actual remaining power. It begins to give false indications of more or less remaining power relative to the use/charge cycles we put the phone through. So, in effect we have to "teach" the OS to better give us proper readings. In reality we may have more or less power remaining than our phone is telling us we have. Right? Does the way I typed it make any sense?

BINGO!

I'd a thought that they could somehow more effectively produce a perfect indicator of actual power left - I mean, we've "put a man on the moon for Christ sakes"!

Oh they can! And you would eat anywhere from 10 to 25% of the battery to do it. Because to tell the exact battery remaining, you have to put a load or in layman terms "a unit of work" across the battery terminals and then measure the voltage level. Well you can't just do it instantly, because Lithium-Ion batteries have a bounce effect as the battery gets the load put on it, so you have to wait a bit. Well you are draining the battery at its full potential until you get a stable reading. Imagine doing that every minute.

Me, I charge whenever I see mine under 80% and I'm at my desk or in my vehicles. Because I never know what might incur that might leave me running down the battery and not near a charger in the next few hours or so. For example - I broke down on a long section of lonely highway last summer. I was on a delivery trip to a destination four hours away. I was in my big box van and no phone charger (at that time) and did not think about charging my phone in full before I left. I mean - I was only going for the day and my phone, I knew was quite capable of lasting that long under normal usage.

Well, breakdown occurred. As well as almost two solid hours of phone conversations calling for help, a tow truck large enough to pull my 10,000 pound box van and calls to my guys, my customer and whatever other calls I made. So, there I was 180 miles from home on a long, lonely stretch of highway with a cellphone that had a dead battery. So now, as a result I always charge it anticipating just such an occurrence again. Though now I have chargers in all vehicles.

I'm hoping this does not shorten the life of my battery, but if Skull is right I should have no worries, right?

mike

The only thing you might want to do different is every 30 to 60 days is to let the battery get down to 10% and then do a full recharge. That way the OS has a better clue to the true capacity. Otherwise the way you are using doing it is just fine. In fact the odds are you will replace the phone before you will need to replace the battery. Well unless you are discharging the battery to 80% five times a day (20% * 5 = 100% or one full cycle), then you will probably replace the battery once.

 

[ardchoille]

BINGO!



Oh they can! And you would eat anywhere from 10 to 25% of the battery to do it. Because to tell the exact battery remaining, you have to put a load or in layman terms "a unit of work" across the battery terminals and then measure the voltage level. Well you can't just do it instantly, because Lithium-Ion batteries have a bounce effect as the battery gets the load put on it, so you have to wait a bit. Well you are draining the battery at its full potential until you get a stable reading. Imagine doing that every minute.



The only thing you might want to do different is every 30 to 60 days is to let the battery get down to 10% and then do a full recharge. That way the OS has a better clue to the true capacity. Otherwise the way you are using doing it is just fine. In fact the odds are you will replace the phone before you will need to replace the battery. Well unless you are discharging the battery to 80% five times a day (20% * 5 = 100% or one full cycle), then you will probably replace the battery once.

Thank you! I'm starting to better understand the battery life cycle on my iPhone

 

[Skull One]

Just so you guys know, I am replacing the battery in my iPhone 4S exactly one year after purchase. Because in that year I easily did over 300 full cycle charges and the battery is only rated for 400. Which means mathematically my battery is now somewhere around 85% of its original storage capacity. And it was showing before I replaced it with the iPhone 5. When I got the iPhone 4S I was averaging 7.5 hours of use each day. When I retired it last weekend, I was only getting 6.25 hours. 6.25/7.5 = 83.3%.

It ain't easy being an iPhone around me

 

[cuskit]

Skull - I admire your knowledge!

I have, at least twice per week depleted my battery down to only 20% or less showing. This is when I take my couple of weekly bicycle rides down to my local Manasquan Inlet and climb out on the jetty for quiet lunch break. Here I spend maybe an hour or so taking a couple dozen or more short videos (usually about 3-4 minutes each video). Along with that I'll also take between 400-500 photos of boats, fishermen, surfers, etc. This constant camera use does deplete that battery within two hours - but, like I said - it's almost constant use of the camera. Once I'm back to my shop - I upload the photography to iPhoto and then charge the phone back up to 100%. By the way - I have to say those Panorama shots are spectacular! I'm beginning to get the hang of smooth panning and keeping the arrow dead on the line so that when I enlarge the shots I don't get those jaggies (which I assume come from moving up or down when the arrow moves above or below the line).

In the next month these trips will die out as the weather begins to turn cold. But I will do as you say, and do a 90% discharge every couple of months if my use does not precipitate that meanwhile. Thanks much for that tip!

mike